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LaughaminuteFrancey
11-29-2004 11:29 am
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Graeme Francey: "I'm pretty sure that you'll find that the Irish senior training panel will have a majority of Ulster players and that was one of our objectives."
Graeme - - even if Ulster's ladies didn't know one end of a stick from the other and were all infinitely inferior to players from Leinster, Munster and Connacht they'd still make up the majority of the Irish senior training panel! Cop yourself on!
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Disgusted
11-30-2004 7:55 am
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Isn't it time Ulster sent their BEST players to the Interprovincials, irregardless of whether they are able to play for Ireland or not? The standard is such they are not worth the effort to watch. Leinster showed up just how inferior Ulster hockey is. With the whole of the Irish forward line on show for Ulster, how come they couldn't score against Munster? Maybe the ball didn't reach them. Perhaps if Graeme Francey hadn't been so keen on showing how marvellous his 17 year old midfielders are and selected an experienced team, Ulster could have had the trophy home. If Connacht can beat Munster, why couldn't Ulster? So stop patting yourself on the back, Mr Francey and in future select on merit not age.
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Munster Supporter
11-30-2004 10:00 am
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I'm gld to see that other provinces are disgusted with there Interprovincials coaches and the carry on on how they select teams and leave the good players out or over work them in matches with out giving them a rest, hence then they are wrecked by the last game and are no use to anyone. The Munster team this weekend was a joke, with the squad they had a on paper, they could have won the tournament if they used there squad right. I was there and watched all three of Munsters games and I still today am baffled on how the coach & assistant coach cant see when players are playing badly and still leave them on the pitch when they have potential Irish players sitting on the bench. I know this weekend that some of the girls will have lost confidence in themselves and why wouldn't they all they got was a kick in the teeth with the carry on.
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Bob the Builder
11-30-2004 10:16 am
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One of the reasons that Ulster could not score against Munster was because players like Aoife McCarthy, Elaine Bromell and Jan Dillon were in the Munster defence. While Munster did not play well Ulster were not capable of capitalising and it was thanks to the above named players that Ulster were kept at bay.
While on the subject can anyone shed light on how come Jan Dillon did not get an Irish Trial ?
She is easily one of the best performers in the Munster Senior league each week. Does Riet Kupier ever come to Cork to watch hockey ?
I heard a rumour that the Munster Coach deliberately did not play Jan against Connacht on the Sunday when She knew the Irish coach wanted to see her play. Funny that Munster lost 1 - 0 and Jan was the only player in the Munster squad not to get a game!
Yet she played in the other two games where Munster got good results.
That brings me to Karen Hales. She is on the Irish U21 team but got very little hockey at the weekend. She is easily Cork Church of Irelands best player and is coached at club level by the Munster coach. This Munster coach gave her very little pitch time. How can we expose the best players when the provincial coach won't pick them and then influences the Irish Coach.
Wake up Riet and pick your own team!
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Munser Supporter
11-30-2004 11:30 am
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Bob the Builder
I agree with what your saying, but another Irish development squad players Karen Hales only got two mins on Saturday and Sunday after playing well on Friday night for the 20 mins she got she saved the game for them by taking at least 2 balls off the line. How are players expected to prove themselves with this amount of time on the pitch
Has a squad been picked for Irish Trials following yur remark above if so is there a list of names
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Munster Joke
11-30-2004 3:37 pm
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Munster coach is renowned for bad decision making, esp at tournaments.
If she has the nerve to make such choices, I hope Munster have the nerve to get rid of her. Her incompetance has finally been exposed at this level. Thought Dillon was too weak to get a trial
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Pat the plumber
11-30-2004 5:42 pm
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Bob the builder
It was most unfortunate that Karen Hales wasn't played by Munster for any reasonable
period, consequently she didn't get a chance to show the Irish coach what she can do.
C'est la vie. Dillon was poor against Ulster and I agree , she didn't deserve a trial.
In fact Karen Hales is a better player.
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hockey fan
11-30-2004 5:42 pm
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Bigger Picture
To Disgusted and Munster Supporter.
There is a bigger picture which I think Graeme Francey recognises and others don't. Ulster bravely picked players who are on the way up and available (injury permitting for Irish selection for the foreseeable future.) Not all the other provinces took this brave approach particularly Leinster who could have put out a side of suitable strength by leaving out people unavailable for Ireland and picking others who were. Riet would have seen Karen Hales in action at the European 21s during the summer and consults widely for opinions on players particularly younger players that she has not yet seen.
If Irish hockey is to move forward it needs to move beyond the parochialism of the interpros and develop a large A & B squad so that a large group of players can be developed over a longer period.
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Typical Munster
12-01-2004 2:51 am
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Hockey hasn't changed much - It seems one person by word or deed can still ruin a players future in hockey, not to mention shattering their confidence.
Who got it wrong? those who selected Jan Dillon and Karen Hales for an Irish Development Squad or the Munster Coach Ann Logan at the week-end. Something has to be wrong somewhere, these two players were basically "shafted" by their own coach with no explanation and while it may be unprecedented, in the interest of "Fair Play" the Munster Branch should endeavour to ensure the two girls get an opportunity to "prove themselves" in an Irish Trial - it will then be in their own hands and what will be will be.
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Cliff Redmond
12-01-2004 4:10 am
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Bigger Picture
I agree with hockey fan. The Trish Conways and Tara Brownes that take up spots (talented players who have declared themselves unavailable for Ireland) delay the progress of our developing players. Provinces differ when prioritising silverware over international selection. Perhaps our CEO will provide leadership here. I concur with Graeme Francey's approach ... though one wonders will he ever grow out of moaning at umpires.
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Interested
12-01-2004 5:09 am
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Team/Squad selection
Why wasn't Fiona Ferguson used more during the weekend games? Surely one of the best and most consistent left backs in the country deserved more pitch time than she was given? Was she injured or was it a similar situation to Jan Dillan?
Has a squad been picked for Irish Trials yet - if not when wil it be released?
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Leinster Observer
12-01-2004 5:19 am
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Munster's CROACH
We actually feel sorry for you Munster people up here in Leinster but have to say thank you to Munster's Coach Ann Logan for helping to make sure that we retained our title. Ha..ha.. what a joke against Connaght. We couldn't believe it when we saw the Munster team playing Connaght well actually the Munster team that wasn't playing Connaght more like it. We thought Jan Dillon was injured but heard that she was on the bench because Ann Logan wanted to wreck her chances of gettiing an Irish Trial You Munster people are weird up here we support and encourage each other and if a coach tried to do anything like that to a player we would make sure that they were chucked out and would never have anything to do with hockey again. Karen Hales and Jan Dillon are players who should be on the Irish panel especially Dillon who was very solid against us on Friday night and against Ulster on Saturday. No offence to Aoife McCarthy but her push outs were so weak that the runner was arriving with the ball. Munster scored 2 or 3 goals against us when Jan Dillon was pushing out. Munster should learn from Leinster use your best players to win but of course if you want to lose as Ann Logan obviously wanted the carry on as you are. Well done all you Leinster girls and management roll on three in a row.
Happy Gal
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Curious
12-01-2004 9:35 am
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Why would Anne Logan want to wreck Jan Dillon's chances of getting an Irish trial? What's behind this? Don't know the background, help?
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In the know
12-01-2004 10:21 am
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Nonsense
This kind of nonsense wrecks my head! People commenting with no clue of the real story. Did noone pick up on the fact that Anne played Jan ahead of probably the best right back in the country in the Ulster game?!?! And ahead of the current Irish left back in the Leinster game!??!? Why would she do this if she was trying to "wreck Jan Dillon's chances of getting an Irish trial?!?! Plus, everyone seems to be ignoring one crucial fact: Jan was already called up before the tournament!!
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??
12-01-2004 10:29 am
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Curious
Well why did she then and Karen Hales's. At least she could give an explantion to the girls on why they were dropped off a Irish Development Panel.
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I.T.K.
12-01-2004 11:59 am
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Selection
After reading all these comments i have to admit im preety confused. Jan dillion played two full matches for riet to see. Surely riet could make up her mind in those two performances. For ppl to say the coach ruined her chance is rubbish,she played,she got the chance. As for karen hales i think its very unfortunate that such a talent has been overlooked. Surely riet should have given her the benefit of the doubt as she is one of the upcoming irish stars. No-one can understand why she wasnt played and for that the munster coach needs to answer for. Riet if u read this, maybe u should reconsider and give karen the chance that she really deserves.
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supporter
12-01-2004 12:43 pm
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Munster squad
The munster coach didn't use any of her squad properly at the weekend. jan dillon played two full matches, she got more of a chance to show off her talent than others on the squad. Munster subs were not used at all and this was obvious against connaght because all the legs were tired and yet fresh ones were on the bench and more than able to win the game for munster. Karen Hales was shafted, why put a player forward for irish selection and not put her on the pitch to be seen, why leave a full irish international on the bench for a full match??? why leave players on the pitch that were clearly unfit for the entire tournament, why put one of your "16" players in the stand and put a reserve on instead of her? these are all questions that need to be answered by ann logan and assistant coach.absolute pharse and disgrace. wake up munster players is all i have to say
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Aertel 218
12-01-2004 2:34 pm
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IRISH SQUAD: Suzanne Beaney Belfast H, Hannah Bowe Armagh, Anya Bowers O Alex, Jenny Burke Hermes, Elaine Bromell C Inst, Deirdre Casey Cork C of I, Fiona
Connery Hermes, Eimear Cregan UL, Linda Caulfield Hermes, Kristin Farrell Waterford, Mary Goode Pembroke, Louisa Healy Loreto, Jill Hodgins Hermes, Alison Lappin UL, Katharine Maybin Pegasus, Nicky McCaughern Ballymoney, Jenny McDonough Belfast, Kirsty McCollum Pegasus, Bridget McKeever Ballymoney, Cathy McKean Loreto, Lynsey McVicker Ballymoney, Aoife Mitchell Hermes, Ciara Murphy Old Alex, Ciara O'Brien Railway U, Linda O Neill Loreto Clare Parkhill Randalstown, Angela Platt B'money, Nicky Symmons Loreto, Emma Stewart Armagh, Orla Ryan Loreto.
No Fiona Ferguson??!!
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RE : Bob The Builder
12-01-2004 2:51 pm
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...your last paragraph
first of all, Hales played a full european tournament in Dublin infront of Riet to show her stuff...obviously Riet is an intelligent woman! who knew such a player would have so many supporters? this player has immmense stickwork skill but unfortunately cannot read a game. right not to have got a trial when you look at some of the players that didnt!
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Yawn
12-01-2004 7:48 pm
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........obviously Riet is an intelligent woman!?
And obviously you're a paid up member of her fan club! If a player's not good enough for Riet she's just not good enough? Tell that to Catriona Carey!!!!!!!!!
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Respondent to Bob the Builder
12-02-2004 4:27 am
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Having watched Karen Hales last summer one assumes Riet considered her suitable for an Irish Development Squad - is it now her "lack of ability" or is there some other ulterior motive that sees her left out of the trial. Unfortunately it appears the Munster coach or assistant coach gave no explanation to any of the players as to the selections she made for the matches over the week-end. Communication was obvoiusly a major problem.
Rumour has it the Munster coach is ill this week and not available to fulfill her club training and Irish Senior Cup commitments this week-end. One wonders did this illness blurr her judgement last week-end or was it brought on by the thought of running into the players she left down so badly last week-end - Cork is a small place - she could be ill for some time
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Reply to Bob Builder and Supporter and everyone el
12-02-2004 5:19 am
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Selection
Someone mentioned getting the real story before commenting, well the real story is that the Irish Coach looked to the Provincial Coaches on Saturday night and Sunday for some direction as well as doing her own scouting over the weekend and it went well for Ulster and Leinster, fact. The Irish coach needs some direction from the Provinces coaches who see the players more than her and that is normal, fact. The fact is that Karen Hales and Jan Dillon were on an Irish Development Panel until Ann Logan used her influence as Munster coach to have them removed from that panel, fact. They have suffered a grave injustice, fact. Everyone who knows anything about ladies hockey in Munster knows that Karen and Jan should be allowed to display their talents to the Irish coach over a longer time. The are young and will have anohter chance as long as people like Ann Logan are removed, fact. C'mon Munster geta real coach who will promote Munster hockey and players.
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oh my word!!!!
12-02-2004 6:11 am
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That panel is laughable. there are players there that havent donned an irish shirt for lower age groups never mind seniors!! and as for Fi ferguson not being there - ridiculous.
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Someone with a brain
12-02-2004 6:17 am
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To all the hatchet swingers
To all those people saying the Munster coach should be given the axe.
Ann Logan has won U18 & U21 interpros with the majority of the Munster players, it was only right that she progressed to the Senior Squad.
You can't blame Munsters let down performace on the coach & assistant coach alone, the players DO have something to do with it aswell.
Yes some players were left on the bench & stand that were controversial decisions but that is part and parcel of being in a squad enviroment and a coaches job to make those hard choices.
If Munster Hatchett the coach - will they also Hatchett the players - NO they won't. Every player makes mistakes, its how they react to them that shows what kind of player they are - Same should go for a coach.
On a great note - there were some fantastic young players involved on all provincial teams, and some are now progressing onto the Irish squad.
Another few that could be there though
Sarah Wilkinson - Pegaus forward
Fiona Ferguson -Pegasus Left back
Pamela Orr - Randalstown forward
Leann Ryan - Old Alex centre back
Jane Burke - UCD midfielder
Karen Hales - Cork player
Stephany Hall - Dublin i think
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neutral
12-02-2004 7:53 am
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coach bashers
i'm pretty dissapointed, and to be fair, disgusted at most of the comments posted above. it's sad that this website is used by a small faction of people to air their bitter personal agendas without fear of having to publicly qualify their comments. most of what i've read above is either false or/and just downright nasty. i understand that people are entitled to their opinion but i feel that they should have the strength of character to put their name to it and be accountable. i, unfortunatley, am not willing to put my name to this as i don't believe the people this is directed are are mature enough to respond to this in an adult manner. i suggest if someone has a personal issue with an individual they take it up with them personally instead of inappropriately using this website as a tool for airing bitter and cowardly comments.
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harte lover
12-02-2004 9:23 am
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emer harte
munster coach must be stupid not to allow Emer Harte to play in the tournament best player in ireland, currently starting at centre back for chelmsford one of the best sides in the much better english league!!
your loss munster and ireland is that why irish womens hockey is so bad!
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Reply to neutral
12-02-2004 9:40 am
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coach bashers
you are easily disappointed and disgusted and you obviously don't like the truth being told. if anything has been said that is false then highlight it and explain why its false instead of making blanket claims that everyone contributing is bitter with personal agendas. no one has come to this site and disputed the facts. do you wonder why well i suggest its because facts cannot be disputed
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to someone with a brain
12-02-2004 9:56 am
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hatchet swingers
eh..... doh........ the coaches job is to coach the team to win the tournament to select the best team to do the job not to select a team less than your best when you have a chance to win and also to support encourage and better the players a number of the players were gunning for the irish team and the coach knew this and intimate details of this and had she wanted to help them she could have and would have but no instead she willfully obstructed them through an abuse of position and no not bitter but yes revolted
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shocked observer
12-02-2004 12:52 pm
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respondant to bob the builder
You are a complete and utter coward. As a former player and present supporter of hockey, I am horrified to think that amongst us, you are clearly not a player, there are those who have the capacity to be so bitter. Posting such comments that is not just underhand and cowardly, but downright mean and malicious. I hope , for your own sake, that you figure out that sport and teams will invariably create controversy. Your opinion is not everybody's opinion. Finally, I would just like to say that I hope I never meet you -you seem like a nasty piece of work.
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Sleepy Giant
12-02-2004 2:01 pm
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Enough said
Fully agree with the person with a brain & neutral, it is apparent that there is a concerted attack by a few embittered individuals going on here. Coaches make mistakes. Players make mistakes. Munster didn't beat Ulster or Leinster and would have been lucky to win the tournament if they could have beaten Connaught by lots. Two others got a chance to catch Riet's eye instead. Time to move on, we will see if the Munster clubs can go anywhere in the Irish Senior Cup.
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Baffled
12-02-2004 7:54 pm
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I'm not being smart, I honestly don't know anything about this Munster squabble, but please someone tell me why Ann Logan, as was claimed above, would use her influence as Munster coach to have Karen Hales and Jan Dillon removed from the Irish Development Panel panel? You can't just make claims like that without providing some kind of evidence.
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Big Fat Goalie
12-03-2004 4:33 am
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Fcuk the Begrudgers
I have read this thread with intrest and I must say I have never come across such rubbish. This drivel realy does reflect poorly on us Irish people if you are reading this from another country.
Bob the builder, go get a life. Anonimity is a great thing, but if you had any gut's you'd put your name to your posts & let people know who you are and what you really think.
The Munster coaching team put 10-12 weeks preparation into the players for the Senior Inter-pro's.
So what if Munster didn't win the tournament, yes it was a surprise result loosing to connaught. But all credit to connaught for causing an upset.
Munster never looked capable during the previous games of scoring a bag load of goals, so it was a big ask to score 7-8 goals against connaught.
As for playing a weakened side, players of limited experience at inter-pro level were allowed to get their feet wet, after all are we are supposed to be developing the future international players of this country.
The Ulster coaching team were praised for introducing young talent. Well Munster too had their fair share of debutants as did leinster.
Double standards here if ever I heard them.
This is more about individuals having a personal problem with the Munster Coach Ann Logan. Than anything else.
Oh and as for the comment that Ann screwed players from getting international trials that's laughable.
Reit is her own woman and makes her own decisions.
The players were left out from the International trials because Reit doesn't think they are good enough. Simple as that. Not because Ann Logan told her to leave them out.
If you knew Reit then you will know that nobody tells her what to do, PERIOD!
I have one message for Ann Logan & Brian her assistant coach.
Fcuk the Begrudgers.
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Player
12-03-2004 4:52 am
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Jenny Gibson
Just saw the Irish Panel list. Surprising that 4 Goalkeepers have been included and Jenny Gibson (Ulsters no. 2 keeper) hasn't been given a chance. She is undoubtedly one of the best keepers in Ireland and suffers only because Ulsters no. 1, Angela Platt is also Irelands no 1, therefore she doesn't get much pitch time. She has consistently been Angela's understudy for Ulster and should be given a chance to show herself at Irish level!
Anyone else agree?
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Neutral
12-03-2004 6:51 am
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reply to neutral etc etc...
First of all, i didn't accuse everyone who contributes to this thread as being bitter, just a small faction. i can qualify this by showing that alot of these statements are a personal attack on the coach and don't seem to take any objective view on the bigger picture (player performance, attitude, support from Munster branch, the fact that the other teams actually played well etc etc)
Secondly, i feel it would be futile to get into an arguement over what is fact & fiction. The coaching team & players know the truth and if they don't i suggest they are all responsible for communication (we're all supposed to be adults), not just the coach.
No one has come on to this site to deny claims as it would be giving time to the ridiculous, and giving it some kind of credibility. it's just not worth it.
lastly, to the person who made comment over Anne being ill and unable to fullfill commitments. You are clearly someone who doesn't know her, therefore not in a position to comment on her health. this has nothing to do with hockey and is no one elses concern. if we cant all be adults and stick to grown up discussions can we at least keep it confined to hockey?
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Sandra Hackett
12-03-2004 9:08 am
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Munster Hockey
I never even knew this site existed until two days ago when i was informed off all the carry on that was going up on this message board and i have to say i was quite shocked.
Coming from a player who was on the squad from the weekend i think this is a disgrace what is being put up on this site.We trained very hard for 12 weeks, every person who played at the tournament played to their best abilities when they came on the pitch and we were unlucky not to have won the tournament, that's what happens in sport, we have winners and we have losers and we lost,fair play to Leinster. I know people were disappointed with the weekend, myself included, but slating coaches etc isnt going to turn back time and win the tournament or get people on an Irish squador give people more pitch time etc. I was very disappointed to hear that both Jan and Karen didnt make the Irish squad but girls ye're still young and ye're still fantastic players, go out there and keep training and playing as well as ye are and ye'll get ye're chance. Heads up munster,put ye're efforts into training hard to make the squad again next year and to bring the cup back to munster. Hockey is a sport and what has been put up on this site is bad sportsmanship.
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Fred
12-05-2004 12:59 pm
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Munster
Oh please stop cribbing the lot of you ........it is only a feckin game of hockey....and i am sure riet didnt just pick her squad on just the interpros....and why cant all of you cowards who have a problem with ann logan just go and say it to her face instead of talking behind her back on a website
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OH NO!
12-05-2004 9:04 pm
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Here's another crib....heard a rumor that Graham Francey is coming back as assistant coach to Kuper. Please somebody tell me this is'nt true!!! If it is then Leinster, Munster and Connacht players prepare to be ignored!!
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Coachie
12-06-2004 8:29 am
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Well said Ms. Hackett, the preperation as far as this selector is concerned could not have been better, well done to the entire squad and coaching staff. Better luck next year.
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Fed up, Munster
12-06-2004 11:29 am
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Maybe the preparations couldn't have been better but the team selection certainly could have been. Stop patting yourselves on the back for turning up and competing, how about making an effort to win the bloody thing next time?
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Mr. Hogan
12-06-2004 2:07 pm
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Connacht
I just cant believe Orla Ryan and That girl Sarah Scott who were playing for connacht are not on riets starting 11. from what i saw the 2 of them were the best players at the tournament................Now theres food for thought.............Keep up the good work girls!
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Jerry
12-07-2004 2:54 am
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Munster
looking at the teams before the tournament started i thought to myself that munster were in with a really good chance in winning the tournament cause of all the quality players they had , but where did they come?? joint third with a Connacht team who were beaten 7-0 by Ulster.why???you can ask Ann Logan that.
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Player 2
12-07-2004 8:16 am
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for 'oh my word'
"there are players there that havent donned an irish shirt for lower age groups never mind seniors!!"
are you trying to say that people shouldn't be selected to train with the irish senior panel because they never played for the u16,u18 or u21? I think its great that the irish coach is looking at how good a player is now and not just what they were like at 15yrs old. There are too many players who get overlooked because they didn't make a name for themselves at underage level.
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Player
12-07-2004 8:31 am
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Get a grip
I think people who didnt play in a Munster shirt in Three Rock Rovers should keep there opinions re Ann Logan to thenselves. If you ask any of the girls who played on that team, and i know and talked to most of them, they have all said that she was a great coach. Also yes Munster did look like a very strong squad on paper, and they were on the pitch to, but you have to give credit to Connacht who finally played hockey like they could have all weekend on Sunday, so i dont think you can blame the Munster coach for there loss against Connacht, i think you should blame the 16 players on the Connacht squad who played to there best abilities and never gave up, which in turn saw them win the match.
So many people that write on this site, are begruders who have never played for there club 1st's Team no mind at interpro or internatiopnal level!!! Stop giving out and get on with your own game, and get a LIFE!!!!
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anon
12-08-2004 9:54 am
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Have to say i agree with Mr Hogan why Orla Ryan isnt on Riets starting 11 is beyond me. Makes you wonder who is actually picking these squads. And Sarah Scott should of been there or there abouts years ago not just now and never got a look in! After watching the tournament, these players are the reason why Munster loast to Connacht!
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Reply to Player
12-08-2004 12:00 pm
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get a grip
i don't know who you are or what your agenda is but you are certainly not being honest. the girls were and are furious with the coach especially how she treated there colleagues who were on riet's development squad and were taken off the squad partly because of what she said to riet and i say partly because certainly one if not two were borderline and a positive word from ann logan would have sealed it for them and she knew it but instead being the not very nice person she is convinced riet not to, it is her right to do so but you can be damn sure the leinster and ulster coaches spoke positively about there borderline players and as for the players saying that she was a great coach you are either making it up or whoever you spoke to is afraid to tell you the truth in case the same coach is still coach next year becuase she is known to be a dangerous person and is well certainly was in a position to damage people and peoples hockey careers for some perverted reason munster better realise this before more players are damaged by her
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x45
